I went down yesterday to the Piraeus with Glaucon [...] Now Thrasymachus had many times tried to interrupt, and at last he burst out and said, "What is this nonsense, Socrates? How are we to protect ourselves without guardians at our borders? Should we allow aliens to enter our lands without restraint? What lawlessness! You wish for an ideal that cannot be translated into reality. I say that unless you provide answers to these complications, your speech is nothing but a waste of time." I was staggered by his attack but managed to answer him: "Don't be so hard on us, Thrasymachus. If we had made any mistake in the course of our discussion, I assure you we have not done so on purpose. It's the ability that we lack, and clever chaps like you ought to feel sorry for us." "I would much rather listen to you try and defend your arguments," he replied with a bitter laugh. "I will try my best. But we must first agree to ignore possible anac